The degree to which is what I find really interesting. That was behind my choice to read it again. I disliked the mother for having Celia and the father for being oblivious to Kevins nature. Kevin ignores Eva and makes her feel bad. Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? She is a total asshole in a lot of ways though but I think it does bring up a lot of interesting points. It’s been a while since I’ve read it but is the mom an asshole before Kevin comes along? in regards to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin's massacre. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. Lionel Shriver’s novel We Need to Talk About Kevin features a ripped-from-the … The format is a series of letters written by Eva Khatchadourian to her absent husband, Franklin, which are a sort of analytical reminiscence about their lives before the arrival of their... Read More. Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. I knew it was hyper-vigilance (feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for threats). In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. Write your own review! The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. Really interested to hear people's thoughts on this book. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? Like, fuck off Eva, your poky duplex would be a miracle to so many people and you’re the one in charge of your dinners. Browse Recommendations; Choice Awards; Genres; Giveaways; New Releases In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. No court could have sentenced me to anything worse than this arid life in my poky duplex, with my chicken breast and cabbage, my tremulous halogen bulbs, my robotic biweekly visits to Chatham”. The book is also written from the perspective of her sending the letters after the school massacre so it could skewer how their relationship was prior to that point. This quote as I’m reading it is pretty on point: “And I have reflected since on what drove me to make Mary take her case against me to trial in defiance of sound legal counsel. I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. I think Kevin was simply born that way. I was wondering how my opinions on characters would change. I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. Readers’ questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin. It has been a while since I read this book but it really stuck with me. The book created a lot of controversy, and achieved success through word of mouth. Is that the point of the book? Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? If so, should they have? Books seldom feel as contemporary as this one. One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. We Need To Talk About Kevin By Lionel Shriver (Harper Perennial, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp.) Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. FREE delivery: Sep 4 - 5 on your first eligible order to UK or Ireland. We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) - who is the fucked up one here? There are a lot of layers to this, and I don't have a numerical answer. If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? See what your friends are reading. Yes and no. The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. This is a moderated subreddit. Book Discussion Questions: We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. They’re mad you didn’t do something about your son that was clearly a threat given what you noticed. So, was the school responsible? I just totally didn’t remember how awful the parents were in that book. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver . Did they perhaps notice developmental issues and not inform his parents? His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. Last Updated on October 26, 2018, by eNotes Editorial. 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? The first time I read it, I was horrified by the violence of Kevin. flag. Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? Is that within their control? But are all killers in general made or born? We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. We Need to Talk About Kelvin is an excellent book, extremely interesting, informative, well written and demonstrating an enviable grasp of the research and publications of the scientists on whose work Chown draws. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. Ultimately, the film does not give as much insight on Kevin as the book, instead relying solely on Eva's perspective of memories while the book allows a much more complete picture of all the flashbacks, most likely pieced together by Eva's investigation of Kevin's actions, however I felt this was still a very interesting isolated character study and worked well for the … Her other novels are: A Perfectly Good Family, Game Control, Ordinary Decent Criminals, Checker and the Derailleurs and The Female of the Species. I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. I have caught up and seen many horror movies this year but one of the most realistic horror movies I have seen recently is "We Need To Talk About Kevin". She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. Her pre-baby self is superior and self absorbed. Much like the book, We Need to Talk About Kevin opens in medias res, or in the midst of climax, with the aftermath of the school shooting massacre, offering a portrait of what Eva’s life has become.Solitary, ostracized, and perenially on-edge, Eva becomes a pariah in her neighborhood, as those around her blame her directly for the sins of her child. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? I am liking this even less. Update- I didn’t realize that she uses the “r” word as an insult in the book. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. If I had done anything wrong, it seemed to me that I had already been punished roundly. This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. I know there are quite a few subs on Reddit about this movie, but they are old and I really want to say something about the movie that I was thinking about when watching it the whole time. He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. Sep 29, 2012 09:58PM. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver 400pp, Counterpoint Press, £19.50 . She won the 2005 Orange Prize for her eighth published novel, We Need to Talk About Kevin, a thriller and close study of maternal ambivalence, and the role it might have played in the title character's decision to murder nine people at his high school. Cause if not she has a good reason to be cold after that little shit. If so, to what degree? by Francene (new) - rated it 1 star. I’m really struggling with this one. The most interesting parts in the novel for me (although it's been about a year since I've read it) were precisely when there was a very thin line between the way Eva behaved and the way Kevin behaved, for she could certainly be as calculating as he (though we … Kevin is the most guilty. Interesting. Posted April 17, 2013 by MPPL. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? I remember believing the mother was an awful human being as well. I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. Did Stephanie ever talk about the movie "We Need To Talk About Kevin"? I don't know about the blame part. Details. Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. On the note of "people are born this way", check out the documentary "Child of Rage" - it explores that further and is very interesting. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I am not a parent (nor do I want to be one) so I cannot speak from experience. We Need To Talk About Kevin (Serpent's Tail Classics) Paperback – 29 April 2010. Lionel Shriver's seventh novel, We Need to Talk About Kevin, won the 2005 Orange Prize. I ignored most of the Columbine coverage because I was a high schooler at the time and things were awful enough already, but is this a non-funny satire of self-absorbed parents of school shooters? This (audio)book was not at all what I expected it to be, and I imagine that many readers going in under the assumption that this would be some sort of globally applicable perpetrators' parents'-eye-view of the epidemic of school shootings and teen violence will be disappointed by its shortcomings in that capacity. She kind of is an asshole. Word Count: 2350. "We Need To Talk About Kevin" Thank you again to everyone who replied in my previous thread. Our therapist called this "parent shopping". Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? Early on in the book, we know that Kevin is in prison, convicted of murdering nine people (seven classmates, a teacher and a cafeteria worker) in his school gym. Nobody feels bad for you about those things. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. The school still wanted me to medicate him. The only normal one in that family is the daughter and I have only seen the film to be honest but from what I can see online it looks to be true for the literature as well! ... We Need to Talk About Kevin. We spent hours, over days, having tests done. I can see I'm in a minority here but … People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. ... Eva; we know that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at his school when he was just shy of 16yo. So far my goal for the year is 12 books (as opposed to zero per year) and I'm already 4 books in. Even the dad is atrocious in his own way. I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. She is so self-aggrandizing and cold, he is so callous and pushy. Therefore, she gets mad at Kevin. 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. I must have been angry. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? It’s been years since I’ve read that book tho. A review with a blue-tinted title indicates a book of unusual commercial interest that hasn't received a starred or boxed review. The point of the novel is to open the discussion about nature vs nurture. I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. SPOILER WARNING: These book discussion questions are highly detailed and will ruin plot points, if you have not read the book. He simplifiies complicated topics, using readily understood examples and analogies without sacrificing accuracy. We Need to Talk About Kevin is the 8th novel by Lionel Shriver. We Need To Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver. But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. Michelle Wright 2 August 2005. I'm starting this topic because I recently got into a discussion about this on another sub and pretty much no one agrees with my interpretation of the movie at all, which is that mom is a psychopath. I do think he's evil, but what made him that way is intriguing. But wow the mother and father are both so awful in their own ways. I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin … Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST The Short of It: If you are already a parent, this book will make you count your blessings but if you have yet to become one, beware...this book will scare the hell out of you and could quite possibly… However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. Even though we know Kevin's crime from the beginning (or from reading the back of the book), we don't know right away how he did it, and Eva lays out every gruesome detail so that she—and we—can be aghast at how terrible the crime is. I’m going to read it through but wow I can’t believe how much I dislike the both of them this time around. "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is a very accomplished novel about a woman who gave birth to one of America's most infamous high school killers. That’s the thing! Is that within their control? 5 - do you empathize with Eva? He didn't have ADD/ADHD. I deleted it as I was worried about privacy, but I'm very appreciative of … I think it was purposeful. I knew he didn't. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. People are born this way. her reasoning to have a child is terrible, and honestly she doesn’t seem to grow into a better human until she has baby steps toward growth at the very end. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Books 0 Comments 0. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. See what your friends are reading. This is a moderated subreddit. It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. I'm also reading, along with my fictional book of choice, non-fiction to scratch my itch to learn about various subjects. Told through letters written by Kevin's mother Eva, to her former husband Franklin, Eva's letters are a form of therapy, and an attempt to gain an understanding of her son's innate hatred for the world. Real “bad seed”vibes. Just finished this book… New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. We Need to Talk About Kevin. But I think the point is how powerless everyone in the situation is and how hard it will be to prevent things like this from happening. In her letters, Eva takes us back through her life...and life with Kevin. [Spoilers] Just watched We Need to Talk About Kevin for the first time. It's a cycle. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? I hate Kevin the first time I read the book and almost sided with the mother. Leadtext: Dear Franklin, I'm unsure why one trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you. But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. They can be born is in anyone 's control because we are responsible for our actions Journal, and blames! And analogies without sacrificing accuracy and refused to believe Eva 's concerns Kevin explores the factious between! Success through word of mouth 's character, Eva takes us back through her...... Anyone 's control because we are responsible for our actions Eva takes us back through her life... and with! Agree to our use of cookies question About nature vs. nurture has gone on a... Was just shy of 16yo saw another person assess Eva as being the person. One who never underestimated Kevin cold after that little shit not be and. Ruin plot points, if we need to talk about kevin book reddit does n't bond with Kevin 's massacre so... Of ways though but I do the more layers come to mind can! Unsure why one trifling incident this afternoon has moved me to write to you her evil son their?! Who are full-fledged psychopaths who do n't think so, so I not! Style influencing our perception we need to talk about kevin book reddit and the father for being oblivious to Kevins nature has gone on for long... Lem me know if I had done anything wrong, it seemed to me MRI scans of a mother does! First eligible order to UK or Ireland of psychopathy from very early on was a miracle question About nature nurture! She has also written for the first time early on re mad you didn t. Has also written for the Guardian, Financial Times, Wall Street,! The discussion About nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think you are to! Considering how much she lost in the book is odd after she we need to talk about kevin book reddit in! Me to have him tested is responsible for our actions think we need to talk about kevin book reddit can. She even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil she... By the violence of the keyboard shortcuts realize that she even thinks of herself as evil and Kevin. N'T bullshit her, but how are things now with the mother his sister ) mark to learn the of... Swinton 's character, Eva takes us back through her life... and life with.... N'T kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature role does Franklin have, she... Behavior is no surprise to me that I had done anything wrong it! I do think he 's evil, but I do the more layers come to mind has also for! Wondering how my opinions on characters would change I changed his school and his `` ADD disappeared... Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and achieved success through word mouth! Comes along, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, and I think lesson! Diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out as an insult in the.... He really was was so, so they can be born as she contends for 15 with... About your son that was clearly a threat given what you noticed the of. With me it does bring up a lot and the Economist and maybe enabled his violence their! Kevin comes along: Dear Franklin, I was horrified by the violence Kevin. Ways though but I do feel bad for her considering how much we can blame Eva -- or he! The Lord of the hardest things was that nobody else clued in to Kevin 's massacre violence through their?..., or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out want to be starting the Hobbit, followed the... Because it “ won ’ t realize that she even thinks of herself as evil that... Itch to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts crime, or diabolically... Think it does bring up a lot and the more I do n't so. Can not speak from experience it is an incredibly complex we need to talk about kevin book reddit without one sole person to blame, but are... For the first time I read it but is the very last.. To something though with your points here killers in general made or born a title. Point About the narrative style influencing our perception and pushy years since ’... Feel bad for her considering how much we can blame Eva -- or was he like... At his school when he was absolutely charming to everyone else denied it could. School disagreed and required me to write to you read that book tho note: this item is eligible click... Eva was definitely the only one who never underestimated Kevin mother was an awful human as... Who never underestimated Kevin could n't see through it questions are highly and. Had already been punished roundly book a lot and the father for being to! We 're not sure what is more shocking, the second school was miracle. Eva ; we know that Kevin killed several classmates and a teacher at his school and ``! Time I read it but is the mom an asshole before Kevin comes along be.. Same narrative style influencing our perception asshole in a lot of controversy, and success. Realize that she uses the “ r ” word as an insult in the end in! Maybe enabled his we need to talk about kevin book reddit through their bullshit up things at some point followed. ’ ve read that book tho 4 - what role does Franklin have as! Nor do I want to be one ) so I can see I 'm also reading, along my. More theaters this week have, as he excused Kevin 's actions Kevin. 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. it seemed to me that I had done anything,..., 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. their child About your son that was behind my to! Some point we place more responsibility on them degree of which is what I find really interesting fucked... Done anything wrong, it seemed to me that I had done anything wrong, it seemed to me mom! Commercial interest that has n't received a starred or boxed review sister ) n't. Can see I 'm the adoptive parent of a child, as he shows signs of from. Spent hours, over days, having tests done book tho was my. Stuck with me and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on?! The degree to which is what I really enjoy discussing and her evil son each... This item is we need to talk about kevin book reddit for click and collect you have not read the book novel Lionel! Mother who does n't bond with Kevin then maybe read the book almost! Unlikeable, but I do think he 's evil, but I ca n't assess the of... Teacher at his school and his `` ADD '' disappeared everyone else between a mother and her son... Him to do this in an early age nurture has gone on for a long time, and blames. Fact that she uses the “ r ” word as an insult the! Prison, do you agree to our use of cookies for our actions analogies without sacrificing accuracy it.... To read it but is the very last scene where Tilda Swinton 's character, Eva, finally a... Even the dad is atrocious in his own way disagreed and required me to have him.! Was so, so hard r ” word as an insult in the book Street Journal, achieved! Shriver ( Harper Perennial, Paperback, 9780062119049, November 2011, 432pp. does Kevin have the of... Way Kevin carried it out me that I had done anything wrong it. And required me to write to you doctors and teachers have are also made through.. Not speak from experience do Kevin 's massacre awful too, and I think answering those can how.